I read a script the other day. A script a friend of a friend asked me to read. The premise was pretty good. A solid idea. The execution of the premise? Oh boy. Mostly not there at all with some passable hints of ok here and there. Spelling was atrocious. Dialogue nobody on this planet would say, ever. A LOT of exposition. People telling people things they would already know to inform the audience. The worst kind of exposition. For a first script it was a pretty standard try.
We spoke. I told the writer the truth, in my eyes, what was wrong with the script. I started by telling the writer how good I thought the idea was. How I wish I’d thought of it. Then I started in, I think gently, to tell the writer how off the mark the script was and why. I didn’t get very far when the writer interrupted and said, “You’re hurting my feelings. Why are you so mean?” I am NOT KIDDING. I may have laughed for a split second. “Seriously?”, I said.
“Yes.”
I was flummoxed. Never heard this one before. He went on to explain that all his friends and family thought the script was great and would be a wonderful film. All he had to do was get it to an agent or studio and let the nature take his predetermined course. Why was I being so mean? Just because I was successful, I didn’t have to lord it over him. Why couldn’t I just read it and pass it on. Or NOT read it and pass it on. This was his honest thought process.
I said, “Is this a joke?” I was trying to think of which writer friend of mine would have put him up to this and how I was going to get them back.
He assured me it wasn’t a joke and I said, “You know, I went easy on you. A reader would have just thrown your script in the trash and never said anything to try and help you. A producer wouldn’t have been that nice. This is a tough business and you have to be tough with it.”
He said, and I kid you not, “I understand it’s a tough business, but you’re not a producer and this isn’t business so you could be nicer and more respectful.”
It was about then I started picturing in my head the walls of this young man’s room, lined with participation trophies and ribbons that told him he was a winner no matter where he’d placed in anything he participated in. This person had never been told he’d didn’t win. He expected a participation trophy from me.
He didn’t get one. I told him to grow up. I told him the real world didn’t give out participation trophies. That he’d have to measure up to industry standards or be left behind and that meant listening to honest constructive criticism and leaving his “Feelings” at the door. He honestly didn’t understand. You could hear it in his voice. This isn’t the first time I’ve run into this out there.
I told him I wasn’t sending it anywhere. I told him if he did send it out he was going to hear a lot worse that what I said. And that he didn’t even let me finish and tell him how he could fix it, although I don’t think he has the ability now. I told him I was going to delete his script from my computer and I would take my mean old self as far away from him as I could. I wished him... I don’t think I wished him anything... I just ended the call.
I’ve said this before. I was given a tremendous amount of help and advice when I was first starting. Help from some amazing pros who didn’t have to, especially considering where my stupid ego was after selling my first script out of the box. But they did. And I listened and I learned and I made mistakes and I fixed my mistakes. Because I had that kind of help.
So in this vein, I also visit some screenwriting boards and butt in when I see something I can comment on that I have experience with. Some young person had posted that you HAD to put camera angles and POVs and camera pans in your scripts so the director knew what you wanted to do. This WAS the industry standard and that Syd Field’s book was the way you HAD to do things or you wouldn’t succeed in Hollywood because they knew if you were using Syd’s book or not by the way your script read. He was “the industry’s guru.”
I have a lot of friends who are writers. Most of which who are better than me and have more experience and there wasn’t one of you that wouldn’t have commented on this. I did. I said that wasn't true. I didn't sugarcoat it, but I wasn't nasty about it. And was met with the same kind of crap I got from the writer on the phone. That I thought I was some ego maniac big shot writer who was trying to tell them what to do. And in a mean way. If he was wrong why couldn’t I sweetly tell him with a private message or something instead of embarrassing him. He came back and said some snotty thing like “My Bad”.
So I answered it like this, “No, not at all. You're learning. You're anxious to get going in the industry. You're eager. You're motivated. Those are things that will help you move forward. Don't change that. When I was first starting I also was free in giving out advice because I was excited about what I thought I had learned. I was wrong. And I got shot down because I gave advice without the industry experience or screenwriting work history to back it up. Plus it was erroneous advice because I didn't really know crap. You're just starting. My advice to you? Read scripts from films you like. Read bad scripts to see what people did wrong. Read any scripts you can get your hands on... Then write write write. Learn the business end of screenwriting. If you want to be screenwriter, that means you have to be an independent businessperson. Just writing a script is the beginning. Keep going and I wish you nothing but success.”
And it started an avalanche of comments from a bunch of wannabe writers on another thread dedicated to complaining about how experienced writers thought they knew soooo much. And how they never liked the loglines people posted and were probably stealing them and never said anything positive (meaning what they wanted to hear) and on and on...
What it taught me was... never again. I’m not reading friends of friends scripts anymore. Just not. I’m past done doing that. I’m not visiting that screenwriting board anymore either. Doesn’t mean I’m done giving back, just going to be more careful and selective.
When you write and want honest feedback leave your ego and feelings at the door. Tough to do, but every writer I know that’s successful does it. Why? Because you'll learn something. You'll get better as a writer. But mostly because if you don’t, you won’t survive.
Follow Bob on Twitter @bobsnz
Michael E. Bierman
UGH. You were honest and told the truth. A bad script is a bad script. The author doesn’t get a participation award. You did him a favor and he refused to accept it. So be it.
EJ Cedric
Another very good piece and one every writer, new or entrenched, needs to take to heart.
Everyone has an anecdote, but, when I was working on a show in NYC, I made a friend who was breaking into the business. I had just gotten my first “real” job (was a writer in the room for a Netflix series) and he and I shared many common interests as well as being writers.
He asked if I would read his script (a spec he was going to ‘shop to Warner Bros….you know the story) and I reluctantly said yes, reluctantly because I was not in a position to give any real “insider” information; I could only read the script and give peer feedback. Anyway, I began reading this phone book sized script (should have been the first red flag) and within the first few pages I found myself with eyes glazed over and an incredible amount of impatience and ennui. Add in there were grammar mistakes everywhere, typos all over etc, and I finally threw in the towel around the 1st third of the script.
I absolutely did not want to extinguish his fire so I was delicate in my notes and feedback. I told him if he chopped it down by about 20 pages and cleaned up the grammar and typos he would be doing his script a great favor. He was not visibly angry or upset, but he never again contacted me.
Lesson learned.
Taylor McCleve
As an amateur screenwriter myself, allow me to apologize for these childish writers who can’t take any kind of constructive criticism without reverting back to the spoiled child they (most likely) were growing up. Reading your blog posts that touch on this subject always makes my blood boil because the sheer narcissism displayed by these kind of writers is maddening.
The single-biggest reason why my last three scripts went from “good” to “great” was because of the notes I received from other writers who are much, much more talented than I am. While I didn’t always incorporate every note into later drafts, the ones that I did use almost always added a new layer or hook to the story, making it shine in a way that wouldn’t have been possible had I not been willing to take their useful criticism to heart.
While most of my first few drafts are always positively received, the later drafts that incorporate notes from trusted writers usually get stellar praise, and that is *only* because I swallowed my pride and recognized that if I want to have any chance of making it in this business, I have to be recognize that my 10+ years experience as a writer pales in comparison to some of these other masters of the craft.
Allow me to thank you for your continued dedication in writing these blog posts for all of us in need of your advice. I’ve been reading your posts for about a year now and I can’t tell you just how useful they have been, and I hope you don’t let the reactions of these ungrateful children convince you that you’re not reaching others, because I can tell you first-hand just how much your thoughts on screenwriting have helped me as a writer.
I really do appreciate what you do, and I just wanted to comment and say thanks since it seems like you don’t get to hear that enough. I know I can’t be the only amateur who appreciates your musings, and hopefully you hear this enough times to convince you to keep going at it because I think the screenwriting community would be a lot worse off without the sage advice from produced screenwriters like yourself.
Thank you, and have a great day!
BobSaenz
Post authorWell Taylor…. you made my day. Thank you… and I wish you nothing but success. Keep in touch.
B
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Matt Moeller
Bob,
Excellent post. I’m reminded here of the “Dunning-Kruger” Effect on skill curves and unconscious unskilled from the four stages of competence.
I’m sorry to hear you’ve had a bad experience with beginning screenwriters. As someone who’s benefitted greatly from teachers with an abundance of patience for my brashness, I’d ask you to reconsider the position you’ve come to. It took me quite a few attempts and missteps to learn the most basic concepts of screenwriting (and story in general), and the guidance of my teachers (formal or not) has proved invaluable to the me of today.
Cheers.
-M@
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Barbara
I don’t think you can blame this on the “trophy just for participating” generation. I’m not from that generation, and I encounter plenty of writers my age and older who get mightily offended upon receiving anything short of glowing praise for their work. I left my local writer’s group because of this sort of nonsense, and most of those members were of my generation and older.
I’ll throw some kerosene on the fire and say that in my experience male writers are more defensive, while female writers are more likely to apologize for not doing a better job.
But you know, the bottom line is that if you ask for feedback, and get it, and you say “thanks you for taking the time to read this and give me notes.” Even if you ignore those notes, or privately think the reader has no idea what they are talking about, you thank them for their time, period. No further discussion needed. No one has ever been argued into liking a script.
Hermione
I guess it’s not always easy to hear criticism, but I always laugh when someone gives out their work to be read, asking for thoughts and suggestions, and then complains when they get it! Perhaps people think that because they’re handing it to someone who they feel they know via extension that they’re going to get a pat on the back rather than an honest response? It hurts to hear that your script isn’t perfect, I guess, but don’t you have a sense of that before you give it to people to read? Isn’t that the reason you ask people to read your work? I think there’s a burden in asking someone to read or view your work, and you probably should be aware that when you’re pushing a friends work on a contact, that person should probably not embarrass you by calling the reader a meanie! lol.
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Phil Hopersberger
Tweeted this. Grain of truth in every criticism and a wise man finds it. We can all improve.